Brazos River Rat ( Billy's ) Update
- Thread starter 73 Sanger Flat
- Start date
73 Sanger Flat
Active member
what if I went this route ??. I wonder if this would clear the mechanical fuel pump ??
Maybe it's time to step back a think about this for a minute.
Timing chains have been used for a long time and their failure rate is pretty low, actually really low.
Anything can go bad, regardless of who makes it or how much it costs.
If it has gears, they can fail, if it has a belt, it can break.
Usually when one type or the other is used, it's based on what the other benefits might be and not on whether it's going to fail.
Are gears or belts actually better for reliability than chains?
:smile17:
Timing chains have been used for a long time and their failure rate is pretty low, actually really low.
Anything can go bad, regardless of who makes it or how much it costs.
If it has gears, they can fail, if it has a belt, it can break.
Usually when one type or the other is used, it's based on what the other benefits might be and not on whether it's going to fail.
Are gears or belts actually better for reliability than chains?
:smile17:
Jim a Rollmaster set with German chain has good reviews on yellow bullet so it is an option. They would not use a chain on my Chrysler but it has 1025lbs of spring pressure over the nose I was told that pressure will tax a chain beyond its limit. Billy has right at 850lbs. open in his. Offshore chain from china or japan scares me. If I had noticed it was a Japanese chain I would have trashed it. Like I told Billy, no more guessing at why it failed until all else is ruled out. Jesel says replace the belt 600 passes or yearly on an endurance deal.
Billy's chain is manufactured by Daido.... General Motors owns a large share of the company. I have no qualm about Japanese products........ they are pretty much on equal with USA mfg. Now Chinese, Korean, Tiwan another story.
There are several quality suppliers who source chains for their performance sets from Daido. I won't name them for several reasons. I personally have no issue with using a Daido mfg. chain.
I have sold chains since 1982....... for whatever that might be worth. ha ha
There are several quality suppliers who source chains for their performance sets from Daido. I won't name them for several reasons. I personally have no issue with using a Daido mfg. chain.
I have sold chains since 1982....... for whatever that might be worth. ha ha
galen said:
GALEN
Would you use 600 passes or endurance for guidance in Billy's boat? LOL
Is there a time limit for the belt drive? 600 passes would be 100 days of use, if you made 6 passes every day out, and that would be a number of years.
When I ask my original question, it was really a consideration question as I don't know if there is a best, or if there is, which one.
:smile17:
I always appreciate your wisdom Wayne. I think i'm just kicking my own ass because I did not replace his chain when I built it. I think when his last engine had the valve train self destruct it damaged the chain. You know what those retainers looked like, it surely did not do it any good. If it is something I did or missed I am hardest on myself. I don't want him to have to replace belts so I am thinking Rollmaster or Milodon gear drive. Just want it to last. I will make it right whatever it takes. Hope to see you guys October 1st. With this broken back starting to kick my rearend this will be the deciding weekend of rather I keep mine or pull the engine and go back on pavement. See you in a few weeks.Dry Dock said:
73 Sanger Flat
Active member
Galen - I have is back together except I left the pushrods out so it would not have spring pressure pushing on stuff .. Bagged them up and laid them in the intake valley .. Put a little grease on the valve lash caps so they wont try and slide off.. You just want the long block correct .. No carb , distributor or starter ?? Plus you want the Callies 4.25 crank and 6.8 rods .. Trying to get everything rounded up and ready to go back ..
I agree Galen , maybe a Milodon Gear drive and I can run a belt driven water pump so we don't have to mess with all the timing cover and water pump issues that way .. Might buy your water pump if you sell your boat and install on mine ..
I agree Galen , maybe a Milodon Gear drive and I can run a belt driven water pump so we don't have to mess with all the timing cover and water pump issues that way .. Might buy your water pump if you sell your boat and install on mine ..
Water pump and belt drive not a problem.. cut down polish up old timing cover, use allen key cut to length for drive shaft and buy an extension to your desired length...in your case you more than likely do not need ext. This was moved further out to clear blower belt.
If your close go by and see Tony's he has same set up.
If your close go by and see Tony's he has same set up.
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73 Sanger Flat
Active member
Thanks Wayne for the picture that helps .. So where do you get the drive to hook the allen key to the cam and then to the water pump .. I thought that was a left handed threaded bolt for the gear drive or belt drive bolt ??t .. Then do you just take the left handed bolt and weld to one of end of the allen wrench and then weld the water pump adapter on the other end .. I have a couple spare timing covers that we can use for this .. Then cut the water port off and just use them separately ?? I need to come and look at yours closer ..
You purchase a LH hex female bolt from Jessel to screw into Jessel drive. Then go buy you a Hex socket of correct hex size.....
then measure and get the correct end play and cut the hex off to correct length. Secure the hex socket to the pump drive shaft. It will need to be drilled or pinned. I had machinist do that. Then mount the pump on the timing cover you have trimmed or cut and spaced and your good to go.
I can get you better pics or you more than welcome call me and you can come by and I will show you.
Link takes you to a bolt. They are about $35 to $40 for little crappy bolt. but? got to have it for pump.
then measure and get the correct end play and cut the hex off to correct length. Secure the hex socket to the pump drive shaft. It will need to be drilled or pinned. I had machinist do that. Then mount the pump on the timing cover you have trimmed or cut and spaced and your good to go.
I can get you better pics or you more than welcome call me and you can come by and I will show you.
Link takes you to a bolt. They are about $35 to $40 for little crappy bolt. but? got to have it for pump.
Like Wayne said they make the drive bolt. They sell pump drive brackets, but JJ would have no problem if you don't want to cut your timing cover. Found these on performance boats. Some people are replacing the drive on the pump with a machined impact socket and using a short length of 3/8 allen wrench for the shaft..
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I bought an old timing cover and EO machined top and bottom off. Then used spacers to move out to clear belt and drive mechanism.
Think Billy has Magna Flo pump...... depending on shaft length, and the length of the hex socket might need a small spacer to have enough room for shafts. I got measurements and made sure I did not jam the hex into the belt drive mechanism so as to have slight end play. Cut the hex to length after measuring.
Think Billy has Magna Flo pump...... depending on shaft length, and the length of the hex socket might need a small spacer to have enough room for shafts. I got measurements and made sure I did not jam the hex into the belt drive mechanism so as to have slight end play. Cut the hex to length after measuring.
galen said:
Galen, in regard to having JJ make one, and I'm sure he could make a nice one, if Billy doesn't want to cut his current timing chain cover, he could do what I did. I found another used one fairly cheap and cut it.
Now like many things, I have a spare timing chain cover.
A person never knows when they may need a spare timing chain cover. LOL
:smile17:
73 Sanger Flat
Active member
I actually have three used extra timing covers .. One with the long feet that goes to the stringer old scholl style , one that is just to cover and does not have the water pump holes and, the one that is on my old engine that has the water pump holes .. Just need to decide what to do first ..
73 Sanger Flat
Active member
Galen has the heads off and so far 9 bent valves . Cam , Lifters and Pistons all look good .. Lifters are going back to Isky to be inspected .. It will be a few days or weeks before he pulls the pan off to inspect the bottom end . Picture of the chain so it will be in my thread for later reference ..