Brazos River Rat ( Billy's ) Update

[73 Sanger Flat]

Yeah, your boat has brakes! You can settle it down, I think! think.gif :evil:

Brakes, we don't need no skink'n brakes.  :smile22:

I am hoping I don't need to settle it down , but if I do , then I will apply some brakes to it quick ..

 

[Carnivalride]

Billy,

Just take your time and set your plates back to your last good baseline setting for starters. With 100hp more than you had last time you may need to move the prop under the boat more or change the plate settings. Gear and prop are always something that could need changed when you change hp levels by that much.

If it were mine after a make an engine change I usually power it up first (not a dead stop hit it) and make sure I haven't adversely affected my mid and top end handling. Once I'm happy that it's stable up top I try some dead stop hits. In my opinion the hardest thing in a flat is flat footing it from a slow roll or from just on plane. Because the boat isn't "dead in the water" the prop will sometimes grab and man handle the boat instead of burning so you can control it. If it does remember if it chines back out because you know what happens on the 3rd chine in a flat.

You'll just have to drive it to see what the new engine does and get used to it or adjust for it. Have fun and be safe.


Loren

 

[Carnivalride]

Yeah, your boat has brakes! You can settle it down, I think! think.gif :evil:

Brakes, we don't need no skink'n brakes.  :smile22:

:smile16:  x2 don't need no stinkin brakes we are racers!!!   jump.gif

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Billy,

Just take your time and set your plates back to your last good baseline setting for starters. With 100hp more than you had last time you may need to move the prop under the boat more or change the plate settings. Gear and prop are always something that could need changed when you change hp levels by that much.

If it were mine after a make an engine change I usually power it up first (not a dead stop hit it) and make sure I haven't adversely affected my mid and top end handling. Once I'm happy that it's stable up top I try some dead stop hits. In my opinion the hardest thing in a flat is flat footing it from a slow roll or from just on plane. Because the boat isn't "dead in the water" the prop will sometimes grab and man handle the boat instead of burning so you can control it. If it does remember if it chines back out because you know what happens on the 3rd chine in a flat.

You'll just have to drive it to see what the new engine does and get used to it or adjust for it. Have fun and be safe.


Loren

That is how I was going to do it .. take it easy and work my way up and see how she does .. I do not want to find out about the chime walk and getting wet ..
just asking here -- the middle plates are to adjust the altitude of the boat to the water ? How far the boat is up in the air ? Maybe run about 1/2 skag out of water ?  So more up on the plate  the higher the boat will ride ?? ..  The outside plate are to trap air and create some lift for the back of the boat ??  The ideal situation is to run as flat as possible and as dry as possible .. Correct ?? It just a balancing act right .. Just a hard one to get perfected .. Then I may need to move the prop in or out more .. Moving in gives the boat more front in lift and moving it back with nickles will try and lift the back of the boat .. Then we get to the prop and if I change , I may have to start all over ??
If I have to move the prop up more , I will have to cut some off the strut to get the clearance needed . Hope I do not need to do that ..

 

[Carnivalride]

Billy,

Just take your time and set your plates back to your last good baseline setting for starters. With 100hp more than you had last time you may need to move the prop under the boat more or change the plate settings. Gear and prop are always something that could need changed when you change hp levels by that much.

If it were mine after a make an engine change I usually power it up first (not a dead stop hit it) and make sure I haven't adversely affected my mid and top end handling. Once I'm happy that it's stable up top I try some dead stop hits. In my opinion the hardest thing in a flat is flat footing it from a slow roll or from just on plane. Because the boat isn't "dead in the water" the prop will sometimes grab and man handle the boat instead of burning so you can control it. If it does remember if it chines back out because you know what happens on the 3rd chine in a flat.

You'll just have to drive it to see what the new engine does and get used to it or adjust for it. Have fun and be safe.


Loren

That is how I was going to do it .. take it easy and work my way up and see how she does .. I do not want to find out about the chime walk and getting wet ..
just asking here -- the middle plates are to adjust the altitude of the boat to the water ? How far the boat is up in the air ? Maybe run about 1/2 skag out of water ?  So more up on the plate  the higher the boat will ride ?? ..  The outside plate are to trap air and create some lift for the back of the boat ??  The ideal situation is to run as flat as possible and as dry as possible .. Correct ?? It just a balancing act right .. Just a hard one to get perfected .. Then I may need to move the prop in or out more .. Moving in gives the boat more front in lift and moving it back with nickles will try and lift the back of the boat .. Then we get to the prop and if I change , I may have to start all over ??
If I have to move the prop up more , I will have to cut some off the strut to get the clearance needed . Hope I do not need to do that ..

There are several things going on here so I’ll try and type it so you can understand but that maybe difficult with my writing and typing skills. Lol

• Yes the center plate helps control the attitude of the boat, but prop position also influences this.
• The outside plates also help control the attitude of the boat taking off but they can be used to help trap air and free the boat up.
• As far as how much skag should be out of the water, every boat is different.
  o I usually base my ride attitude of the boats ride pad or main running surface. Too much up on the plates can suck the back of the boat down. For starters I typically start with my plates an 1/8” up. On mine if take a string or laser pointer and run it to the skag it will be about 2” from the bottom of the boat.
  o In my experience I’ve had better luck changing props and/or moving them forward or back to adjust the attitude rather than trying to over compensate by plate adjustment. Good close up videos and pictures will help you decide what to change. I also use GPS to verify I’m going the right direction.
  o If you need to move the prop up and don’t want to cut your strut a prop guy can bore the taper deeper in your prop and cut the front of the hub back. The other trick is making the radius on the back corners bigger (kills tail lift).

Yes these boats are a balancing act and you have to get everything working together to have them run to their full potential.

JMO $.02
Loren

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Thanks for the help Loren .. I am making a new notebook right now to keep track of all the adjustment this year . Going to start fresh and keep track of what I am adjusting .. I did the string line on the plate adjustment and I am up about 1/4 inch on the plates and that is giving me right about half the skag or 2.25 inches from the bottom of the boat .. I need to get my laser out and try that ..

 

[jimsplace]

Billy,

Just take your time and set your plates back to your last good baseline setting for starters. With 100hp more than you had last time you may need to move the prop under the boat more or change the plate settings. Gear and prop are always something that could need changed when you change hp levels by that much.

If it were mine after a make an engine change I usually power it up first (not a dead stop hit it) and make sure I haven't adversely affected my mid and top end handling. Once I'm happy that it's stable up top I try some dead stop hits. In my opinion the hardest thing in a flat is flat footing it from a slow roll or from just on plane. Because the boat isn't "dead in the water" the prop will sometimes grab and man handle the boat instead of burning so you can control it. If it does remember if it chines back out because you know what happens on the 3rd chine in a flat.

You'll just have to drive it to see what the new engine does and get used to it or adjust for it. Have fun and be safe.


Loren

Loren has a good grasp of what to do and explains it very well.
I think I made it sound as though you should make a full out pass right off, and that isn't what I meant to imply.

Another point that Loren brought up is about trying to give it full power from a slow rolling speed.  It is more difficult if the prop doesn't break loose.
  :smile17:

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Jim-- I knew what you was implying .. I know you would never tell me to stand on it and make a full pass the first time back out ,,
Jim -- what do you have your plates set at , yours is a TR-4 also .. Maybe I can use your settings and try it .. I know you make more power and your prop is better , but maybe it would help me get mine dialed in ..

 

[jimsplace]

There are several things going on here so I’ll try and type it so you can understand but that maybe difficult with my writing and typing skills. Lol

• Yes the center plate helps control the attitude of the boat, but prop position also influences this.
• The outside plates also help control the attitude of the boat taking off but they can be used to help trap air and free the boat up.
• As far as how much skag should be out of the water, every boat is different.
  o I usually base my ride attitude of the boats ride pad or main running surface. Too much up on the plates can suck the back of the boat down. For starters I typically start with my plates an 1/8” up. On mine if take a string or laser pointer and run it to the skag it will be about 2” from the bottom of the boat.
  o In my experience I’ve had better luck changing props and/or moving them forward or back to adjust the attitude rather than trying to over compensate by plate adjustment. Good close up videos and pictures will help you decide what to change. I also use GPS to verify I’m going the right direction.
  o If you need to move the prop up and don’t want to cut your strut a prop guy can bore the taper deeper in your prop and cut the front of the hub back. The other trick is making the radius on the back corners bigger (kills tail lift).

Yes these boats are a balancing act and you have to get everything working together to have them run to their full potential.

JMO $.02
Loren

Loren
Have you tried adjusting the center plate separately from the two outside plates to see how much difference it makes?
I've always adjusted mine equally up to where they are now and they seem to be OK.  However, since I haven't adjusted them separately there may be a better adjustment that could be made.
Interestingly, my plates are adjusted to where I was told worked best for the Cole TR-4's by the person who did the bottom.
Because I didn't know where to start, I called and ask for guidance.
The number he gave me didn't seem to be in line with what everyone was telling me, so I started out slightly just above being flat and just kept raising it until it got to where it is now.
It seemed strange that the number he gave me was exactly where I ended up.
I can tell you it comes out straight and runs level, or at least close.

I doubt that the position my plate is now would be good for any other boat than a Cole TR-4 because every boat has a different bottom and rocker combination.  It probably wouldn't even be good for the Cole 1, 2s or 3s, just my opinion.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

OK- Jim , how much up is yours?? Mine is the same as your except I have not had any bottom work done to mine .. I set mine 1/4 inch up right now and will adjust later on the ramp after the first couple of test runs ..

 

[Carnivalride]

Loren
Have you tried adjusting the center plate separately from the two outside plates to see how much difference it makes?
I've always adjusted mine equally up to where they are now and they seem to be OK.  However, since I haven't adjusted them separately there may be a better adjustment that could be made.
Interestingly, my plates are adjusted to where I was told worked best for the Cole TR-4's by the person who did the bottom.
Because I didn't know where to start, I called and ask for guidance.
The number he gave me didn't seem to be in line with what everyone was telling me, so I started out slightly just above being flat and just kept raising it until it got to where it is now.
It seemed strange that the number he gave me was exactly where I ended up.
I can tell you it comes out straight and runs level, or at least close.

I doubt that the position my plate is now would be good for any other boat than a Cole TR-4 because every boat has a different bottom and rocker combination.  It probably wouldn't even be good for the Cole 1, 2s or 3s, just my opinion.

Jim,

Yes I have adjusted the plates all independently at times and in fact they are not all set the same on my boat now. I feel on the top end the center plate along with prop, prop placement and weight distribution control the attitude of the boat. The outer plates help control side to side balance by trapping or releasing air from the runners if your boat runs free enough.

IMO the goal with a runner bottom is to run on the back 2’-3’ of the center runner and only use the outer chines like training wheels on a bicycle. If you’re free enough to do this you may need to run the outer edge of the right plate down a half turn to a turn to keep the torque from dragging the right side chine going down the track.

To try and answer question a little better if you raise the inside of the outer plates higher than the center plate they let more air out letting the back of the boat run lower. Leaving them the same or a little lower than the center plate and lowering the outer edges of the outer plates tends to trap more air and lift the back of the boat. IMO these adjustments are more of a fine tuning tool.

 

[Carnivalride]

Jim,

Here's a series of pics that kind of shows what setting works for my boat.

1st sort of shows the plate settings on the trailer.

2 & 3 show it running, one from each side.

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

Thanks Loren for the schooling .. I need all the help I can get ..

 

[Disturbed]

Thanks Loren for the schooling .. I need all the help I can get ..

Definitely!  I'll be re-visiting this thread from time to time.  clap.gif  Thanks for the information!

 

[Carnivalride]

Thanks Loren for the schooling .. I need all the help I can get ..

Definitely!  I'll be re-visiting this thread from time to time.  clap.gif  Thanks for the information!

You're welcome Billy.

Disturbed you must be grasping at straws reading my posts. lol ...  crazy.gif

 

[Disturbed]

LOL.  No, everyday is a new opportunity to learn.  :smile30:

 

[jimsplace]

LOL.  No, everyday is a new opportunity to learn.  :smile30:

You are an optimistic son-of-a gun, for some, everyday is an opportunity to break something else.
    jump.gif

 

[duanehydro]

some of the best information I've seen here in a while! clap.gif

 

[73 Sanger Flat]

I think so too Duane .. It is good talking about our boats and how to improve them .. Sharing the  knowledge is great , that is why I still love THB ..I love picking people's brain about how to do something better .. Now I just need to get it done ..

 

[jimsplace]

OK- Jim , how much up is yours?? Mine is the same as your except I have not had any bottom work done to mine .. I set mine 1/4 inch up right now and will adjust later on the ramp after the first couple of test runs ..

I would say that's a good place to start.  I know mine is up more than that, but I don't remember exactly how much.
I will check my straight edge and get back to you.  My straight edge is actually a 4 Ft. U channel with a Loctited screw turned out the correct amount.
I can measure it.

I had the information stored on an external hard drive which crashed, so far I've been unable to retrieve anything off of it.
I had backed-up many things, just not some important information.
    :smile17: